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gas motorized bicycles illegal in washington state

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gas motorized bicycles illegal in washington state

augidog
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This post was updated on .
you know how things are going along just fine, then you suddenly learn that things were not going along fine at all?

got a call from GEBE, they needed to pick my brain about wa state MaB laws...they sent me a link that a prospective customer sent them. washington's been busy since i last looked, which i admit has been a while.

in washington state, electric motorized bicycles now enjoy their own definition and set of regs, but gas motorized bicycles no longer have a definition at all and are beholden to the entire set of regs for defined motorcycles/mopeds.

a bicycle with a gas assist on it has to have all the equipment a motorcycle/moped has to have, inspection registration & insurance, and proper licensing...they paved the way for true EaB's while closing the door on true MaB's.

this means i'm illegal in washington state, not even borderline or gray-area, but illegal...

and i don't mind saying that right now i could use a beer, my heart is breaking.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04

"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: illegal in washington state

alttransbikes
This post was updated on .
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Re: illegal in washington state (cross reference)

augidog
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This post was updated on .
state police: http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/vehicles.htm
(each link opens a definitive pdf)

the state legislature says a "moped" is not a "motor-driven cycle"...the state patrol say a "moped" will be policed like a "motor-driven cycle." being a moped used to be a good thing for the MaB.

"motorized-bicycles" used to be listed and defined as mopeds, and in the past, mopeds had been held to some very very loose regulation...well, have a look at the brand new "moped" pdf, dated 07-11...there's some federal codes in there that bicycle components cannot comply with.

ultimately all 2- or 3-wheel ICE is subject to full regulation, minus insurance for mopeds (which seems to be the last tattered remnant, & i predict that won't last long)...note again a definitive section for EaB's on both sites...along with a complete absence (for the first time since whenever) of the term "motorized bicycle", which is a dark cloud indeed.

the restructuring and clarification on the WA sites is new to me, their old stuff was all over the place and vague enough for us to get by on responsible behavior. now, no matter how cool we're being, we're automatically illegal by default, with no way out.
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

augidog
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This post was updated on .
after 50+ years on the books, the ICE "motorized bicycle" has recently lost all legal status in washington state, has in fact been erased altogether.

why is that i wonder? is it because people like me have been advocating self-regulation & leading through example, or is it because mercenary forums like yours encouraged extremism & hooliganism for sales & profit?

man, you & your cronies (some are local to WA!) just plain suck. y'all own the lion's share of responsibilty for this, and you know it. tell me, guys...how does it feel to see proof that you & your behaviors have made a direct (and permanent) negative impact on the MBcommunity?

i hope you enjoy your SEO profit gained at such a huge cost to so many people, you greedy a-hole.
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: illegal in washington state

Rif Addams
In reply to this post by augidog
"I'm broken hearted, I'm a broken man..."
Social Distortion
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

alttransbikes
This post was updated on .
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

augidog
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you're giving the ostrich too much ethical credit. the large majority of today's MB'ers don't care one bit about this, and never did. at the most, we'll hear an indignant outcry against repression and such, but you're not gonna hear anyone saying "dang it, i knew better than to ride that illegal bike downtown, i knew things could come to this, and now i'm responsible for all those other compliant riders being totally screwed!!"

nope, you're not gonna hear anyone take the blame, you know that's not how those posers operate.
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

alttransbikes
This post was updated on .
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
We're here and accounted for...
There may be one or two drifting around but i think most are here!
Lmao!
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

augidog
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This post was updated on .
funny thing, "free" thinking...the more you think for yourself, the more you realize we're all in this together. i've worked very hard to maintain a respectable image of the motorsport, both in how i build and how i ride, and not every decision i've made was the one i wanted to make...but there was a whole community to consider, and if i wanted to remain "free" i was gonna have to compromise.

see, i'm not surprised at what's happened, nor do i even blame those who cut the cord...from society's perspective "we" been daring 'em to do it, so they did it. it was all predictable, in fact it was predicted.

and very few of us will ever consider the historical significance of losing an entire state.

kinda kills the buzz, don't it?
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
Proof of what i spoke of right here, right now.
 Remember when i said " sometimes you win the war by giving them the battle"
Or, " you win by giving them what they want.
  Btw- love the commentary about those who speak the loudest about big government, are usually the self centered folks with a case of entitlement...
Yeah, its all about you, and screw everyone else...

Before i post more ( i'm at work on lunch right now), i want to look in detail, on my laptop, at all the regs, the whole issue...
Then i will prepare my words and plan of action...
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

augidog
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if you find one vehicle pdf where a true MaB will pass muster without subterfuge i will kiss you on the lips.

and i don't mind saying, Rif...you can feel free to start your own topic about this matter and others, i'm sure folks will want to know what uncle_punk has to say about all things MaB, in his own write.
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Robin Bird


Im ilegal here but had no problems really (except got pulled over and told them im an old man trying to save gas)theres something fun about it
My friend has the im a free man in a free country approach but it may not float in court.
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
In reply to this post by augidog
Hey all,
 Been digging through the rcw's, wac's, and state patrol equipment requirements.
 What I am seeing is that ICE M/B/moped reg.s haven't changed, they stayed the same (but for giving electrics complete autonomy and freedom by allowing their own definition) we were always sort of in that moped definition; what seems to have happened is that the grey areas we used as loopholes have been cinched up tight.
 Don't get excited, as I've barely scratched the surface so far, but there are still a couple of areas that we may be able to use, but don't get too happy yet, they may be closed up by further reg.s
 What I am doing is digging, searching, copy/paste into a word doc. so that once I have weeded out everything and distilled it down to applicable info, I will arrange it together, print and bind it, with easy to find color coded tabs, cross reference if I can, then I'm going to knock on some doors.
 One of those doors is a former band member who is an attorney, and I'll see if he can point me in the right direction.
 I have a small inkling of an idea forming that we might be able to use to open this issue up in a legal forum in order to get our own definition, or squeeze in with the E-MaB definition...
I'm throwing everything against the wall right now to see what sticks.
I will keep you posted.
Aug. I'm a shaker, not a kisser...!!!
LOL
Uncle_Punk AkA- Rif
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
Once I get this distilled down, and figured out I guess I'll have to start doing what I did way back when in '98 with my very first MaB; print it all out, put in ziplock bag, and carry with me everywhere, in case I get pulled over and hassled...
 Only got pulled over twice in all these years locally- one was good experience, second not so much.
 Okay, looks like our people in Olympia, the legislature have made no changes and have no real awareness, where all this seems to be coming from is the state patrol (understandably, as they are the front line who actually has to deal with everything on the streets)...
 That helps us to be able to narrow the focus a bit in the research aspects, and from there we can potentially organize, unite and present our case for our own unique definition.
 Da** the attitude of "tax it or ban it." Our leaders really need to get into some reality...
 So funny also the prejudice that seems to have always been there regarding electric assist, vs. ICE assist-
We have never been allowed on bike trails, in bike lanes- electric always has, and now, electric gets its own definite, definition and therefore freedom to roam, and ICE gets gripped by the throat even tighter.
 Personally I'd like to see POWER ASSISTED BICYCLES get a unique definition, then sub definitions from there regarding assist type, and standards for those power plants from there. This has always been my stance though- why the discrimination? Why not equality and the freedom to choose which power assist powerplant platform based on individual tastes, needs, etc.
 BTW- Augi, do you you still have the photos, spec.s, etc from Bluto in its hybrid MaB form?
 I've been thinking a lot about that lately... ;-)
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

augidog
Administrator
This post was updated on .
pics are available when needed...and i'm also brain-storming a gas-engine to chevy-alternator to battery-pack to electric-motor setup...just in case.

Rif, before you get too deep into this activism, bear in mind why we're here in the first place...people already had the "freedom to choose" and for the most part they chose illegal engines and components. shoot, one of the biggest names in MB supply sells knowingly-illegal parts & is based in WA!! don't think that hasn't factored in, because i'm sure it did. i've said elsewhere "cops can read"..."we" thumbed our noses at the freedoms "we" already had, and "we" weren't paying attention to safety & strength of bicycle parts at gas speeds, so "they" coded gas MaB's out of the game. it's my opinion we're not gonna get any wiggle-room because of a few compliant riders...we have to rely on the entire community to properly represent, and that's just not gonna happen.
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
In reply to this post by Rif Addams
Okay got it all saved- 25 pages worth of legalese and whatnot; anyway, precicesely what you stated in OP- between legislature, and WSP, it runs circular and counter to what the other states, but what I'm seeing is This: the WSP imposes more defined specific intents, whereas the legislature has provided broad definitions.
 The legislature has authority over WSP, but WSP is the enforcement, and at our level, is the first line of authority.
 To my mind this says that we must start there, and from there move up.
 How? Don't quite know as of yet, but continuing to work on it and follow multiple avenues of resources...
I'll keep ya posted fellas.
I'm hoping we can make this work in our favor; it won't happen overnight, but if i do nothing, then nothing changes.
 What I am doing now is looking into the specific equipment requirements, and how we may be able to meet them, or if we can get exemptions, though it looks like not much has changed in that area, just tighter enforcement...
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
In reply to this post by augidog
Hey Aug.
I don't disagree at all, but I have to do something; anything, to try to keep myself alive.
 You are also not wrong in the feeling of a few good guys isn't going to change the sea of piracy, and illegal behaviours and attitudes.
 But i gotta try...
 
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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circular legislation

augidog
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Rif Addams
yes, it used to be simple...you may recall, the previous "moped" pdf actually used a pic of a HT/Huffy as one example, and did not contain all those federal codes.

it's still simple...the new "moped" pdf does not show any form of bicycle at all, and references a bunch of federal codes that bicycle components cannot meet.

noone messed with the laws, just mechanically clarified what a moped is.

here's a chuckler to ponder...as of july, the "ped" in "moped" is meaningless. it's the end of an era.

maybe we outta start calling 50cc scooters "mo's"  

i can see it now...a 3-man ride to olympia outta convince 'em we're serious. roadblocks and teargas, the whole gamut, a made for tv movie no doubt.
"Even looking at a map takes on a different feeling, than it did in our pre-MB years." -bamabikeguy-
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Re: hey "railler" you jerk, are you catching this?

Rif Addams
In reply to this post by Rif Addams
Jeez...
 Gotta go take care of some responsibilities here but dang, trying to navigate the fmvss is a task of herculean proportion...
 Keep smiling Augie, we'll get it figured or move to an M/B friendly state!!!
Gota go
Let the solution be the revolution
"I just wanna have some fun, before they throw me in the sanitarium!"
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